PROPOSED CHANGES
February 1, 2010
Lakeport Residents,
I wanted to thank the standards committee for their hard work, time, and valuable insights. Below is a summary of the standard’s committee recommendation and the board’s decision.
2) HOUSE NUMBERS DRB APPLICATION: Board voted for the standards committee’s recommendation
The board encourages any comments and objections be openly and publically stated on the website to encourage as transparent discussion as possible. If you have objections or strong opinions please put them on the website so the neighbors can understand your concerns, point of view, and insights.
3) SIDING/TRIM DRB APPLICATION: the standards committee recommended that only the side and back be considered for Hardieplank. Importantly, it was noted that the current “continuous” standard may create strain among neighbors who do not all agree to switch to Hardie. For example if one neighbor didn’t want to switch and four connecting units did, that that could cause a lot of pressure by the four neighbors on the one neighbor leading to tense relationships.
The Cluster board decided to move forward to allow a choice of any/all sides to switch to Hardie as that is how all known buildings with Hardie/rough sewn cedar stained mixed in Reston have been approved.
Videos of approved buildings and clusters in Reston are enclosed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOEV7hnZOAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VBJaIEcBLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK41jjcDDIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59bSDUTt2vo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkAJJ9ay498
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYGbcI-eiKc
4) STORM/SCREEN DOORS DRB APPLICATION: the standards committee recommended that we do not allow horizontal bar’s in front but to grandfather units that front horizontal bar.
The cluster board recommended allowing horizontal bars in front storm doors for the following reasons:
A) In the opinion of the board, the difference in look did not outweigh the convenience factor. This especially true for houses off the lake or those that have a solid front door.
B) The standard to not allow horizontal bars on front screen doors went into effect in 2007. Currently no unit in the cluster is approved for the horizontal bar for the front storm door. There may have been up to 9 units that had pre-existing front storm doors with horizontal bars that were not grandfathered. The change in standard will allow current residents with horizontal bars on their front storm door to maintain their investment while allowing other residents the opportunity to invest in the same convenience as their neighbors. (i.e. to avoid neighbor envy J)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTwjXg9XflI&feature=email
James Pan
Standards Committee Coordinator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As obsolescence grows; new materials, higher efficiency products, and lower long-term cost products enter the market, Cluster Standards must be reviewed, revised and resubmitted to the Reston Design Review Board (DRB) for approval. The following DRAFTS will be submitted in spring of 2010. If you have questions or comments, please e-mail Board@LakeportCluster.org ASAP for consideration.
- COLORS DRAFT (simplified)
I’d like to propose that composite materials be allowed for front entryways (stairs and porches). They take the same beating from the sun as decks and balconies, with the same maintenance requirements, so not sure why they would be excluded from the sensible composite option?
Paradigm vinyl replacement windows and doors have also been approved. I have them on my house. They are available through Katchmark Construction.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks –and glad to hear your vinyl windows were approved. It should be stressed that your home was approved for that specific vinyl window as oppose to the cluster being approved for Paradigm windows. As a cluster, our standards our officially listed on our website (Pella, Andersen, Marvin). Though there have been several instances of units being approved by DRB for vinyl, they are a unit by unit basis. It is vital, particularly for a large investment like windows, that you get DRB approval before you proceed. This is especially true if you are not going to use official cluster standards.
Thanks again for your comment.
James Pan
Lakeport Board and Lakeport Members:
The proposed changes for siding/trim and storm doors eviscerate rather than strengthen our current standards. These proposals would degrade the harmony and beauty of the original design for Lakeport.
I do not support their going forward to the Reston design review board. This project needs to start over with the intent of solidifying rather than diluting existing standards.
George Meredith
703 346 8807
1944 Lakeport Way
Reston, VA 20191
I am writing in support of expanding current cluster standards for storm doors to include 2 panel front storm doors with horizontal bar. Unless harmony is equivalent to exact replica I do not believe that expanding this standard will in any way degrade the overall look and beauty of the neighborhood.
Michelle Simoneau
1934 Lakeport Way
571 201 8343
I’m writing to ask that the cluster standards be changed back to allow 2 panel front storm doors with horizontal bar. They provide a very convenient way to have both screen and storm door in one, without the need for changing the doors for different seasons. They do not detract from the general lines/designs of the homes, and in fact, offer a pleasant minimal differentiation from the drab uniformity of some some other neighborhoods. This increases the beauty of the neighborhood.
Dori Solomon
1965 Lakeport
Dear Lakeport Cluster Board,
We are writing in support of allowing an individual townhouse to put up HardiePlank “Cedarmill pattern” siding. In driving through Lakeport Cluster, one sees that the siding on any townhouse does not flow continuously into the siding of the adjacent townhouse. The underlying architecture of Lakeport Cluster is designed in a checkerboard or quilt-block pattern (and is an attractive architecture). Viewed from the street, each of our townhouses is separated from its adjacent townhouse by a long, vertical trim of a different color from the siding, that is to say, checkerboard.
In other words, imposing a contiguous requirement on an architecture that is fundamentally non-contiguous is unreasonable and unfair.
Rick and Debbie Morgan
1927 Lakeport Way
I am writing to express my support for the proposal to allow the installation of Hardiplank as an alternative replacement siding. Having followed the debate, the issue for most of us is really only limited to “what does it look like once in place?” From my point of view, it looks just like the original cedar, except it’s not warped, wood knots are not missing, there are no bird pecked holes and there are no signs of any rotting. My focus is maintaining and enhancing the look of our properties, mine personally and ours as a neighborhood.
I personally raised the point at the annual meeting that if we truly wanted uniformity, we would have the entire cluster painted at the same time and everything, including roofing, siding, driveway resealing etc. would also be done in that simultaneous fashion. When Lakeport Bylaws were established and ratified, they chose a different route. Vertical contrasting trim is in place to minimize the so called “checkerboard effect” so if I repaint a year ahead of my neighbor, the contrast should be minimized. The same would hold true if I painted or replaced my siding, as long as it looked the same as the equivalent. It actually doesn’t quite do the trick as you can observe with your own eyes by standing on our community dock looking north at the group of 4 townhouses (~1933 to 1939) to see the difference between “freshly painted” vs. “not freshly painted”). From that same spot you can also see the Hardie Plank group to the immediate left that totally matches the freshly painted townhouses. The interesting observation from the RA Design Board, as stated in a letter to Richard Morgan back on May 29, 2007, was their reluctance was only in approving a change that was not a “cluster standard”, in other words, we are free to do a we collectively choose. Additionally in that same letter they Board noted they were “…sympathetic with the idea of a cluster standard allowing all units within a contiguous building grouping to replace all cedar siding (all sides) with Hardiplank at the same time, to avoid such a patch work appearance.” As noted above, the patchwork issue exists today by virtue of our bylaws, thus blunting their only concern.
So from my point of view; A) We currently allow Hardie Plank (the entire group across the trail from my townhouse is now Hardie Plank and I can’t tell the difference but for the fact that they look clean and uniform, like they were all freshly painted) and B) We currently allow owners to repaint, restain, redeck, reseal, regutter or do about any other exterior maintenance on their own schedule, relying upon the “Vertical Contrasting Trim” to provide the visual barrier and avoid the checkerboard effect. So the question really comes down to only “should we permit unit by unit installation of Hardie Plank?” In my opinion, yes… We have provided the visual barrier, if that was an issue. And if we say “no” then we should also not allow any “individual residing” due to the fact that, using me as an example, if I were to fully replace the siding with new cedar on my townhouse, it would the abut the 25 year old siding of my neighbors and produce exactly the same contrast by comparison. And, as you and others have seen, side by side, Hardie Plank and freshly stained or painted cedar are indistinguishable.
I am interested in maintaining my townhouse and our neighborhood to highest standards and quality. Modern materials such as Hardie Plank provide a great way to be more environmentally sound and provide the same aesthetic look we enjoy today with lower maintenance costs and lasting uniformity.
With regards and respectfully,
Randy Babbitt
1923 Lakeport Way
Reston, VA
My evaluation of the materials in question cause me to completely disagree with this comment on on both technical and esthetic levels. My rationale is based on a significant compendium of facts and can be viewed in this forum as a comment to these proposed standards.
If you want to discuss this in furthger detail, call or e-mail.
Ron Goodes
ronald.goodes@comcast.net
703-587-5998
A prior comment suggested that Lakeport Cluster has a checkerboard pattern. I find this statement and the logic behind it questionable. Check out Mallard’s Landing and other clusters with garish, multi-colored pallets…those are checkboards”. Go to your “games” closet and pull out the board on which you play chess or checkers…that is a checkerboard pattern. Lakeport is NOT similar to any of these as it is designed to have a totally consistent pallet throughout the 4-7 unit groupings.
Ron
Regarding the HardiPlank/Rough Cut Cedar discussion:
The net net for me is that choosing to change Lakeport’s character from a warm, welcoming, interesting, award-winning, wood-based community into a cold, boring (shallow/repetitive grain dimished with paint), concrete-based community is not in the best interest of any resident.
Ron
Regarding the storm/screen door issue:
Facts:
Full-panel (not split panel) storm/screen doors are the norm in Lakeport Cluster and throughout Reston .
Perhaps 85%-90% of existing storm/screen doors at Lakeport Cluster are the full-panel type.
Current standard calls for full-panel doors.
Front doors set the tone for Lakeport’s image.
Full-panel (not split panel) storm/screen doors were the recommendation of the Lakeport Standards Committee.
Personal Opinions:
Using split-panel doors will destroy the look/style of our cluster.
Leaving the decision to homeowners will result in a checkerboard/inconsistent effect which flies in the face of what standards are in place to accomplish.
Cruise the cluster and examine front doors and form your own opinion
Personal Conclusion:
Allow only full-panel storm/screen doors.
Ron
Feb 11, 2010
Ron,
Thanks for participating both in this discussion and your efforts on the standards committee.
First let me state the facts:
1) As a member of the standard committee you agreed that any phase 2 unit should be allowed to change their side or back with Hardie on a non continuous basis;
2) With the exception of Dick Laser, every other member of the standard committee agreed to at least some partial Hardie use on a per unit non continuous basis. For example George Meredith supported any phase 2 unit back side and some sides (like my 1983 water facing side) should be allowed hardie use on a unit by unit basis. Other standard committee members didn’t like the look of Hardie, but they didn’t want to hold up their neighbors choice either and thus chose to support back and side hardie use on a non continuous basis.
In my opinion – I would think any objections you post on the website should be understood in the context that you a vast majority of members of the standards committee (you and George included) already supported some form of partial Hardie replacement for the cluster in a non continuous manner.
Re: 2 Panel Front Storm Doors
3) Pre 2007 there was no storm door panel standard. The units that had 2 panel front storm doors were not grandfathered. As the then president of the cluster, I am sure this was an honest oversight by the previous board. I hope you will concede that it is unfair for the legacy front 2 panel doors to be cited by RA during a future inspection (next inspection 2013). Those legacy 2 panel front doors will last years. Some have been up since the mid 90’s so if they remain (which is fair) you will not get the consistent look you seek for a very long time.
4) We currently have half a dozen types of front door entrances. We have solid front door with several different color and designs and we have 3 panel vertical glass front doors. So we currently do not have consistent look for our front entrance.
5) We do not require front storm doors of any type. Some units forgo having a storm door – again we will never get the consistent front entrance look unless you require every unit to get the same type of front storm door and require that they have the storm door – you will not get the consistent look you seek.
My opinion – Lakeport will still be a fantastic place to live regardless if we have 2 panel front storm doors, one panel front storm doors, no storm doors etc… Cluster members deserve the opportunity to have 2 panel front storm door if they so choose (as well as the opportunity to have a one panel or no front storm door).
Unless every member wants to get the same front door with the same color and design and are required to get the same front storm door then we will never have a consistent front entrance look.
Last fact and opinion
1) Your and other cluster member’s insights and time volunteered to the standard committee was both valued and appreciated. Final decision on what and when to submit standard changes to the Reston design review board rest solely with the Lakeport Cluster board. In fact, it only takes agreement of 3 out of 5 board members to submit an application. In both the siding and storm door apps, there were no individual board member objections. (I am astonished that you were not aware of this process as you were president for several years and applied for numerous standard changes on behalf of the cluster).
I appreciate your participation and urge you to continue expressing your view points and criticism in this public forum. In particular, please express your “further details” re Hardie so that we can have maximum transparency for our fellow neighbors (why hide important facts/insights in the shadows?). In closing, I will petition the board on your behalf to give you a whole section of our cluster website or any other reasonable venue to discuss your “further details” so the whole cluster can view your thoughts. We will call it The Anti Hardie – Ron’s Corner and Website.
James Pan
1983 Lakeport Way
jpamco@yahoo.com
703 476 0416
James…in response to your recent and lengthy post:
I believe that lengthy posts here will serve to discourage readers who do not have the time or interest to wade through all the chaff. Furthermore, posts containing errors and misrepresentations are unacceptable and only serve as a further time waster.
I am obligated to respond to the portions of your post that I believe to be misrepresentations. I will attempt to be brief and take the high road, even though you make taking that road difficult.
Your primary misrepresentation regards the Standards Committee decisions. You were there as were Michelle, Karen, myself, Dick, Sharon, and George. All committee members voiced firm objections to the general use of HardiPlank for a range of reasons. I mentioned that two sides of two end units would be candidates for HardiPlank do to their orientation to the sun. We compromised on a position allowing HardiPlank ONLY on the sides of end units and in the back of houses. We agreed that having HardiPlank on the fronts of houses was a poor choice. Dick maintained a position rejecting HardiPlank outright. This compromise position is well documented. Sharon, Dick, and George, please chime in here and correct me if I am wrong.
You took that compromise and completely misrepresented it by stating in your post that the committee’s decision was to allow HardiPlank on the sides of any/all homes. This type of misrepresentation, due either to oversight or maliciousness, is very poor form.
On another subject, your snide/sniping comment about former presidents and Boards speaks volumes. I suggest that before you castigate (look it up) individuals or former Boards who put significant time and effort into improving Lakeport, you look closer to home.
The net is that I feel obligated to protect the time and money investments made in Lakeport by its residents. I cannot sit by and let a warm, inviting, award-winning cluster get turned into one with plastic (Trex) front steps, concrete (HardiPlank) siding, and hacked front door views. This serves no one well.
For my money, I would like to see a standards committee and its “chair” focus on the many other standards and Handbook operational guidelines and their existing and blatant violations that are destroying the cluster. This is preferred over focusing on what is personally preferred.
So much for a terse post.
Ron
Ron,
This was your email to the standard committe on Dec 3 2009. So these are your own words:
“Regarding a couple of points from last night’s meeting:
1. Just like Dick, Sharon, and George, I am generally opposed to HardiePlank because its look is very different form the look of rough-cut cedar. What I said is that I could live with it being used in places where it was less obtrusive and those locations are the rear of a home or the end of rows. When James said to me, “So, you are for having HardiePlank in the rear and on the end of rows”, I realized he and others might mistake “tolerating it” with “wanting it”. They are very different.”
Ron Goodes
12/3/2009
I read this as you would tolerate use of hardieplank rear or side of the home with no qualifier for end units. That is any phase 2 unit could do the back and side.
But I encourge Dick, Sharon, George or any person with objetions, insights, or opinions on these matters to share their comments on the website.
James Pan
1983 Lakeport Way
To Board of Directors and Residents of Lakeport Cluster,
We have owned the property at 1936 Lakeport Way for 15 years and rented it since 2005, which has prevented us from having a vote in decisions on cluster bylaws.
We resided in the property from 1995-2005. The current storm door was installed in 1996 with the Board’s approval. We were told that cluster standards changed in 2007 and we have never received notification of the change or notification that this door was in violation after subsequent annual Board inspections of the property. Our neighbors on both sides, Michelle and Michele Zimmet and Ms. Brewer are not opposed or repulsed by the sight of our current door and we have never had any objections to this door for the 14 years that it has been displayed on our property.
On February 5, 2010 we received an e-mail informing us that there is some type of controversy about 2 panel storm doors at Lakeport. This is the first time we heard that there was an issue regarding doors. This surprised us because we had just repaired the screen of our storm door last July (2009) at the request of the Board when they did their annual inspection of homeowners’ properties. The annual walk through in 2007 and 2008 did not produce any violation for this door.
In these difficult economic times we think that a concerned Board would show members consideration by not having to remove perfectly functioning and well maintained doors that the owners have never received a notice for violation of Lakeport standards. We are told that this petty concern is being generated by a handful of residents and we believe this controversy should not distract the Board from focusing on more important community issues that could have a positive and substantial effect on the standard of living in our cluster. We further understand that the current Board holds the opinion that the doors installed prior to the 2007 change in standards should be grand fathered as a practical matter. The cost of replacing these doors is highly objectionable to those of us who are responsible, long standing Lakeport owners and we feel it would be irresponsible of the Board to give into the unreasonable demands of a few irrational members who seem intent on bullying their neighbors to accept this ludicrous change.
In the unlikely event that there is a decision to mandate the replacement of these doors, we expect the cluster to reimburse us for our recent screen repair to help defray the cost of a new storm door.
We hope that sanity and level headed decision-making will prevail and prevent this from occurring.
We further expect you to post this communication on the Lakeport website so that our neighbors are aware of our position in this matter.
Optimistically yours,
Jeffrey and Judith Boyer
Owners – 1936 Lakeport Way
Jeff and Judy:
I am no longer on the Board, but remain a concerned resident.
The current standard calls for a “full panel” screen/door in the front. RA’s guidelines call for standards to be applied to new or replacement items. Others are normally grandfathered in. I do not believe RA or Lakeport has ever intended to “bully” anyone into removing a perfectly functioning item such as a door and replace it with a “standard” door.
If words exist that state or imply this, they need to be changed.
Ron
Dear Lakeport Cluster Board,
We are writing in support of allowing an individual townhouse the option of having a single horizontal bar in its storm door at the front. We believe that Lakeport Cluster is esthetically pleasing with a mixture of (1) two-panel front storm doors, (2) one-panel front storm doors, and (3) no storm doors. In our opinion, none of the 3 alternatives distracts from the good taste, architecture, and general lines of the Lakeport Cluster homes.
Rick and Debbie Morgan
1927 Lakeport Way
Feb 13, 2010
Ron,
I figure out the language disconnect. My side- is for only end of units (what other unit would have a side?). If I meant front side – then I would have said front. If you read the first post from Feb 1 or Feb 11 post, I never said the standard committee wanted to allow front sides. I said the standards committee recommended side and back (in your language – end unit sides as they have the only side elevation and rear side). I think if you re read my posts and replace my “side” with your “end of unit side” then in fact we said the same thing. That is with the exception of Dick, the standards committee recommended to allow some form of hardie use on the side (for end units) and backs (rear elevations).
The Lakeport Board (including myself) recommended “any side – including front” as that is the precedence for Hardie/rough sewn cedar mix in other Reston clusters and buildings.
James
I support implementing the following proposed changes for the Lakeport Cluster.
HOUSE NUMBERS DRB APPLICATION
STORM/SCREEN DOORS DRB APPLICATION
SIDING/TRIM DRB APPLICATION
The siding and trim DRB modification allows the use of hardie board to replace existing siding. This provides Lakeport Cluster homeowners with the option to use a superior siding product that will wear better, last longer and requires far less maintenance than the current siding option. It looks better too; some homes in the neighborhood currently have Hardie board siding; it is hard to tell the difference other than the fact you might think that the homes were newly painted. I just had my house painted last summer and it does not look nearly as nice as the homes that have hardie board siding.
James Luscher
1930 Lakeport way
Reston, VA 20191
Hello,
Please post my comment below:
I definitely support the new hardieplank standards. I live across from houses that have it, and find absolutely no difference in appearance from siding. For those who choose to pay the extra expense, I believe it not only helps maintain property values but may make a house even more attractive to buyers, since it so greatly reduces maintenance.
I also support the storm door standards.
Thanks – T. Evon
1928 Lakeport Way
I am writing in support of the proposed standards changes. In regards to the Hardiplank siding I am not sure why anyone would be opposed to installing a product that is far superior in maintenance, durability and energy efficiency. To me the units that have installed the proposed siding look so much cleaner without all the knots, holes and warped boards that are characteristic in the cedar siding that is currently used and I image that any potential buyer would feel the same.
It would seem that I am one of the 9 units that had a storm door with the horizontal bar prior to the standard change in 2007 and love it. My unit faces due South and there can be at least a 20 degree difference between the front of the house and the back, so it is really nice to be able to open the top panel and be able to cool my house without running the air conditioner. Aesthetically, the difference between the full panel doors seems to me to be negligible. Other than the Board, does anyone know which eight units have the horizontal bars in their screen doors?
Reed Nibley
1921 Lakeport Way
Reston, VA 20191
I read many diametrically opposite opinions on the Lakeport Cluster website. It is my belief that discussing colors, styles and patterns it is often very subjective. It all depends on the taste and personal preferences of the person posting the comments. I like symmetrical shapes and homogeneous materials, that’s why I would not support the mix of Hardiplank and Cedar siding in the same house or block of houses. I am sure that others with different personal preferences would like that mix. I support the current standard (Hardiplank for the entire block of houses only) that is a fair compromise between the two diametrically opposite preferences.
Thanks for the opportunity to discuss and comment in an open forum
Nick Ipiotis
1948 Lakeport
Nick,
Thanks for your thoughts. I must say you have an interesting definition of a fair compromise. Here is another interesting defination of a fair compromise:
Let us cluster members have a little more choice. Let neighbors have the chance to be environmentally/green friendly. Let us have a choice to lower our home maintenance costs and thus increase the value of our homes. Allowing Hardie will give us the opportunity to save $10-$20K over a 20-25 year replacement cycle for the side.
I do not think it is fair for one neighbor to effectively veto another continuous neighbor’s pursuit to be and save green. This is the effect of the current continuous standard.
We should have some choice on how we maintain the value of our largest investment – our home.
James Pan
1983 Lakeport
James:
Regarding your post above:
Rough cut cedar siding is a natural substance (wood); HardiePlank’s main ingredient is cement and silica; medical evidence shows that silica dust is dangerous to your health and can potentially contaminate the ground and the lake.
It is well documented that carcinogenic fibers are released when HardiePlank is cut without expensive remediation and care. I choose not to risk a homeowner’s use of a “low bid” contractor’s poisoning of the ground and lake that constitute the value of Lakeport Cluster.
Why don’t you consider standing in the pile of cement and silica you want in your garage and wave your “green” flag. Better yet, have your contractor cut the HardiePlank outside in your driveway so that the carcinogenic fibers can be blown all over the neighborhood. I say “NO”.
Regarding your “savings” claim over 20 years: 1971’s siding is over 20 years old and seems just fine. Try maintaining cedar with the Lakeport-standard stains.
Ron
Regarding the board’s decision on siding:
I heartily support the decision to allow the use of hardieplank on an individual basis and independent of other homes in the same row. Furthermore the proposition to exclude the “front” from eligibility is unacceptable. As an owner of arguably the most visible home in the cluster I would like to invite anyone to examine the architecture of our home. From that observation please reasonably explain precisely what is considered the “side” and what is considered the “front”. One will quickly see that the proruptions and contours prohibit any commonsense application of a standard that allows you to use hardieplank on the sides and rear, but not the front. If the intent of the frontal exclusion is to avoid some disharmony, those in favor of said exclusion will be aghast when they see the patchwork of hardieplank and cedar that would result if such a compromise were imposed on our home. The frontal exclusion is self-immolating by nature.
It should also be observed that homes in Lakeport do have sides when they are staggered even though they are townhomes. The siding in these places takes an enormous beating. They are frequently ABOVE the neighboring roof. For this reason I firmly believe each home should have the choice to use hardieplank individually, on any side, and not be subject to the budgets or objections of his or her neighbors.
Since moving into Lakeport we have experienced more rot and water damage than I have ever seen in my time as a contractor and otherwise. During our April home inspection a professional declared our new house essentially leak-free. It was not until we pulled the baseboard trim off the walls and noticed rust on the nails that we had any reason to suspect major leakage. Pulling the crumbling drywall off the walls revealed copious leaks. I was able to tear apart a load-bearing 2×4 with my hands. Almost every run of exterior trim is spongy to the touch and visibly shriveling beneath thick layers of paint. Unfortunately this is also where the wood siding typically ends. I can tear the siding apart with my bare fingers anyplace it meets vertical trim. This is especially true around windows. Please see the picture at the link below to get an idea of what we are facing because of how poorly the wood siding, trim, and windows have held up:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34102188@N03/4286857402/in/set-72157618739695071/
I highly suggest taking a closer look at the structure of your home. Beneath the cedar siding I found a fire barrier of exterior rated drywall. The siding nails directly to this paper-faced gypsum. Such material is no longer in use because once the paper facing becomes wet, it is a food source for black mold as seen in the walls of our dining room.
It would be nice to spend time enjoying the lake rather than chasing leaks and fighting a losing battle with the elements. With regards to the comment about hardieplank being unusually hazardous I have to take exception. As a carpenter I spent lots of time around the materials used in residential construction. Please peruse the following Material Safety Data Sheets for hardieplank, drywall, concrete, pressure treated wood (both CCA and CA) and fiberglass insulation and compare them:
http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/pdf/msds.pdf
http://www.usg.com/rc/msds/panels/sheetrock/sheetrock-gypsum-panels-msds-en-54000001.pdf
http://www.quikrete.com/PDFs/MSDS-J1-Concretes.pdf
http://www.gp.com/build/DocumentViewer.aspx?repository=BP&elementid=4505
http://www.owenscorning.com/worldwide/admin/tempupload/pdf.13614-NAM-EN%20Low%20Density%20Insulation.pdf
The recurring theme is that all contain chronic and acute inhalation and contact hazards. None of them offers any prolonged exposure hazard when properly installed and all mandate some form of dust mitigation during installation. I have personally cut cement-fiber board by scoring and snapping it. There is very little dust with that method. I cannot imagine a siding installer refusing to use that method if the community requests it.
To further demonstrate the hostile environment we call home, fire rated drywall contains not only trace silica dust, but silica FIBERS exactly as hardieplank does. Fiberglass insulation is literally glass (silica) woven into a wool and festooned within the walls of your house. Concrete not only contains silica, but can cause alkaline burns when wet. Even the shingles on your roof have glass fibers in them. Taking these facts into consideration, it seems unfair to chastise hardieplank on the grounds that it will poison anything. If this is the primary argument against cement-fiber construction, we should seriously consider pulling our arsenic treated wood dock/deck supports out of the lake followed by removal of the the concrete sidewalks and asphalt roadways.
Erin
1985 Lakeport Way
I personally prefer that we stay with cedar as the standard. I do see a difference in appearance and think that the appearance of Hardieplank cheapens the look of the property. I am in favor of maintaining a distinctive feel to our community for both aesthetic and property-value reasons.
Regards,
Kay Quam
1913 Lakeport Way
I have an issue with requiring the numbers above the garage for my unit. The house number is more prominently displayed on the brick wall which is in sight of the garage door. I feel the numbers above the garage are unneeded and will detract from the clean look now.
Paul Thornton
1940 Lakeport
Erin:
Wow I had no idea you had such problems with water leakage. My guess is that the house you bought was very poorly maintained and is the exception at Lakeport. I am also guessing that the problem has nothing to do with the siding material, but more to do with the lack of caulking around windows and trim boards and/or rotten windows and trim. If this is the case, HardiePlank will not solve the problem as un-caulked or poorly-caulked spaces around windows and trim will still allow leaks.
The DRB disapproved HardiePlank for Lakeport recently for reasons other than the ones you are discussing. They really do not like the juxtaposition (sp?) of that material with rough cut cedar. As Kay mentions above and numerous other residents have noted, the profile, shallow/consistent grain, paint, lack of knots, etc. all contribute to distinctive and easily discernable differences. When the two materials are viewed together the difference is pronounced (to me).
I am all for using advanced materials, but they must “match” material on existing co-joined walls. At Lakeport, we have a history of allowing such changes. One example is allowing vinyl windows, where they were previously banned. This was done once the industry became able to “match” our color paletts.
Ron
I am opposed to HardiePlank. I feel strongly this product looks nothing like natural Cedar. We have lived here 15 years and enjoyed looking at the cedar and this is what we bought into. This includes the knots, shadows, differences in the boards. I do not mind having my house periodically painted. It contributes to the economy of other families who are in the business of painting homes. I am being green by continuing to support families rather than replacing their jobs with cement, boring, lack of character siding. I regret saying it is okay for some to do this in some manner.
Sharon (forgot to leave my name)
Dear Lakeport Cluster Board,
We agree totally with Erin. This comment (on siding) hits the nail on the head.
When we arrived in the Lakeport Cluster in 2004, we had leaks through the ceiling. While the roof looked satisfactory, we had the entire roof and all the flashing replaced. The leaks continued. Subsequently, we had many experts climbing over our roof and lots of neighbors trying to help. At long last, one inspection team said it was the fault of the cedar siding on the chimney, and not the fault of material on the roof or the flashing. The leak was coming in through the cedar.
Once the cedar was removed (from the chimney), rot, water damage, and unsightliness were exposed. The underlying boards were soaking wet and falling apart. Since we had our chimney siding replaced with HardiePlank, the leaks have vanished. The townhouse at 1929 Lakeport Way had the identical problem, and the leaking there disappeared once the chimney was sided with HardiePlank.
To forestall the submission of the ubiquitous Ron’s email guessing that the problem had nothing to do with wood; our neighbors (next door) told us that (over the years) our townhouse had been regularly stained and repaired. Given the sun and the humidity from the lake, wood is often flimsy and insubstantial at Lakeport Cluster. Ron, it’s the wood.
Rick and Debbie Morgan-
1927 Lakeport Way
Dear Lakeport Cluster Board,
The discussion on the new standard for siding is lively, and that is good for the cluster.
As a point of clarification, putting up HardiePlank siding (after proper Lakeport Cluster and RA Design Board approval) is not a do-it-on-the-cheap undertaking. By the time the siding is up, the HardiePlank siding is more expensive than the cedar. In the refurbishment at 1927 Lakeport Way, the HardiePlank was about 13% more expensive than good cedar. We believe that one choses HardiePlank for its lasting beauty and its substantial structural strength.
Rick and Debbie Morgan
1927 Lakeport Way
Feb 27, 2010
Hey Rick,
Thanks to you and all the other neighbors for their input on the standards discussion. I have another data point on the cost of a Hardie project. I priced it out last summer; I had CEDAR 15% more expensive then a Hardie installation. My guess the difference is that we priced our projects two years apart and mine was priced during a recession.
James Pan
1983 Lakeport
Rick:
Regarding your recent post above, I wanted to remind you that the reason your house and the other three houses in your “group” were approved to have HardiPlank installed was because the prior Board made a convincing argument to the DRB regarding the elevetion/orientation of those houses.
Unlike any other “group” at Lakeport, yours faces due south and has no protection from trees. Other houses at Lakeport have orientations allowing some heating of the siding during the morning or evening and cooling during the other part of the day. Your “group” is unusual in that it gets the moring sun, mid-day sun, and afternoon sun and therefore has no respit from the suns heat and no chance to cool down.The result is drying, warping, cracking, and leaking. Again, this is an unusual situation at Lakeport.
The prior Board recognized this fact and was able to present a convincing argument to the DRB for them to relax their position for these houses only. There are actually 2-3 more “sides” of homes for which a convincing argument could be made.
As a side note, I encourage all residents to visit the Timber View cluster. It is one we envy for its beauty and maintenance. I know the president there and they have a very active Board and some strict maintenance rules. It is an all cedar community that is very well-maintained. The big difference at Timber View is that all homes in a group are painted/stained together. This results in greatly reduced costs per home and a community without the wide variance of shades we have at Lakeport. I would support a change to this modus operandi, but the entire community would need to vote on it. Said another way, Timber Views homes look great (better than Lakeport) without resorting to garish alternatives like HardiPlank.
One other thing Timber View does (not related at all to the siding issue) that makes it a beautiful place is to insist homeowners use their garages for cars. This eliminates the “used car lot” look we have at Lakeport that greatly detracts from its beauty. I would support mandating the use of garages for cars (I, like many, violate this by parking a vehicle in my driveway or a guest spot), but again, the entire community would need to vote on this mandate.
Sorry for vaivering from the subject at hand, but the image of another rough cut cedar commnunity that looks terrific got stuck in my head.
Ron
Dear Ron,
In response to your email of February 28, many of the cluster townhouses (and not just 1925 – 1931 Lakeport Way) are directly exposed to sun and humidity from the lake. Erin, Randy, and I are saying (1) wood, especially on the many townhouses nearest the lake, is ill suited for this environment; (2) a lot of the cedar on cluster townhouses is exhibiting decay and starting to look terrible; and (3) saying cedar looks warm is having a preference for warping, missing knots, rot, bird-pecked holes, and surface deterioration.
As to the suggestion for central planning (a system I have seen working in California) at Lakeport Cluster, there is always the impact on dues. Our current dues are about $1,000.00/year. My off-the-top-of-my-head guess is that we would require roughly $5,000.00/year to cover siding, painting, and so on.
As you suggested, I drove over to Timber View Cluster. It is a nice-looking cluster. The Timber View Cluster has many more trees than our cluster and is not next to a lake (Lake Newport is about ¼ mile distant). I cannot see the siding at Timber View Cluster having a problem with sun and water vapor.
Rick-
I like existing Cedar and paint.
Phong Nguyen-xuan
1959 Lakeport (phase 1)
I am not in favor of changing the siding on my home. It is very attractive and for twenty-eight years it has been very sturdy and is still holding up. Maybe it would be better to use paint on the homes rather than stain.
Our builder used new piping that turned out several years down the road to be a disaster! It is a bit disheartening to have your long-time neighborhood changed when the existing conditions are what attracted residence in the first place. I’d rather have my replacement cedar siding custom cut/fitted.
Carol Leos
1957 Lakeport (phase 1)
Rick:
In response to your post above, I believe you misunderstand how the “group” staining would work. Homeowners would pay (not via dues) for a “group” to be stained together, when needed.
I believe your $5K/year number is way out of line, but I am in the process of getting some real comparision numbers, so we will see how that comes out.
Ron
Rick:
Also regarding your post above where you cite Erin and Randy as have unprotected houses, let me try this: in my opinion:
1. Erin’s front gets morning sun and her back gets the afternoon sun and her side gets little or no sun due to its north facing orientation. This means her front is shaded in the afternoon while her back side is shaded in the morning/noon.
2. Randy’s house faces north so his front is protected, his back side has a lot of trees, the west side of his house get morning and noontime sun, but not PM sun.
3. My house get morning sun in the AM, not much at noontime, and about two hours of direct sun in the PM before the tall trees across the lake provide shade.
As stated before, the back of your house gets blasted mornig, noon, and afternoon as is therefore a good HardiePlank candidate.
As far as the claim that moisture is a culprit, I must point out to you that many beach properties are constructed with cedar (my experience). So, it is hard to believe a placid lake is a culprit.
Again, this is just an opinion.
Ron
Carol and Phong,
There seems to be some confusion. The Hardie discussion is only for phase 2 homes. Phase 1 homes such as yours will not be able to participate as there is no off the shelf Hardie or Cedar siding solution for your homes anymore. You will need to customize your cedar siding for repairs or replacement. Only phase 2 homes would be allowed to use Hardie as there is an off the shelf solution for it. The other clarification for all phase 2 residents is that Hardie siding is only a choice and would not be required or mandatory. That is you may continue to use cedar if you so choose.
James Pan
1983 Lakeport Way
Dear Ron,
Your thought on new beach housing suggests to me that you have not been down to North Carolina lately. I saw mostly HardiePlank and vinyl siding (I do not support vinyl siding) on new housing in North Carolina.
In fact, Debbie and I visited Mary Kay and Jan (Chapel Hill, North Carolina) 2 weeks ago, and what do our wondering eyes behold on their house, but HardiePlank siding.
Turning to numbers, a U.S. Census 2005 report covers 30 years of home building trends in America, and came out in 2006, and can be found at:
http://www.census.gov/const/www/charindex.html
Additional breakouts of this data and other trends are at:
http://www.nahb.org/constructionstats
under “Selected Characteristics of New Housing.”
The report revealed important trends in the type of exterior wall material used for newly completed houses. In general, the use of brick and wood exteriors has declined as stucco and vinyl siding have become more popular through the years – with vinyl siding now the most-used wall exterior. Brick exteriors on newly built homes declined from 32 percent to 20 percent of the market between 1975 and 2005, while wood exteriors declined from 36 percent to 7 percent.
The report noted that a clear trend is the growing popularity of fiber cement. Fiber cement (sold mainly under the Hardiplank brand) had a 2 percent share in 1999. In 2005, fiber cement was the primary exterior for 10 percent of all new homes in the nation and for 21 percent in the Pacific division.
Ron, nobody is using wood at the beach anymore.
Rick-
James:
By way of further clarification (see above):
1. I believe you live in a phase 3 house. Phase 2 models are the ones other than phase 1 that are not lake-side. I believe Lakeport had three builders.
2. Just because someone lives in a phase 1 house does not mean they cannot voice opinions regarding HardiePlank.
3. Choices and standards are often in conflict. We, like everyone else, bought into the stringent standards mandated by Reston and Lakeport. This is what makes Reston a highly desireable and valuable community. BTW, I personally think a dark red front door would look very sharp with my “grey” house. Can I have the choice to paint it red? Can I, huh…pretty please.
Ron
1) Decks – DRB Application – OK
2) House Numbers – OK with the caveat that existing numbers/placement be grandfathered. In my case I have a motion detector to light up the area for safety reasons and I believe having the number to the side does not detract from the value of the home. I’ve noticed that the type style (which isn’t addressed) is really more of an inconsistency than anything.
3) Siding/Trim – OK – this one will be a problem area because of adjoining houses though I personally don’t have a problem with it being used partially.
4) Storm/Screen Doors. We don’t have a screen door on our front door and I don’t think it makes a difference if my neighbors have a single or double or a horizontal bar. It’s a screen door. I think the color of that door would be more of an issue.
5) Windows – OK – I agree that when replacing windows with better materials (my gosh wood rots so easily in this lake environment), they should be replaced if they are viewed as a group as the youtube video shows.
Thanks for the effort made – it appears a lot of work went into it and common sense.
It’s easy to see why some folks are upset whenever there are changes, etc., especially in these hard economic times that have been coupled with some deep losses. Still, after almost 25 years, Lakeport has matured well.
Dan & Susan Kilcup
1917 Lakeport Way
Thank you!!!!! for the Hardiplank. I am all for it. This is 2010 and our houses will begin to show real wear, in 20 years they could all be hardiplank and it would look fine.
Also on the screen doors, as I walk around the neighborhood, I NEVER notice them….what stands out on our homes is the garage doors. So I think people can do anything they like.
My only complaint is the new regulation that the last board put in on the decks. We have an opaque grey wash that Consumer Guide said was the best and it looks great, but is now illegal because we are supposed to do brown or natural. I don’t like brown and grey together…..but it is not a big deal.
Thanks for all the work you do.
Warmly,
Linda
1915 Lakeport Way
An interesting observation to share; as the weather has been nice recently, I have had occasion to chat outdoors with a few neighbors walking on the trail. After stating that I am a supporter of the Hardiplank option, I have asked their honest opinion. Several said they would have liked to actually see the material as they have only “heard” the arguments. Since the group of townhouses to the east side of the trail (1925 ~ 31) across from the trail from my townhouse IS Hardiplank, I suggested they just “turn around and see for yourself”. The response has been universal. They all said they “couldn’t tell the difference” and “…it really looks nice”. Not one thought or knew it was Hardiplank and couldn’t tell the difference even on closer inspection.
Randy Babbitt
1923 Lakeport Way
Randy:
Regarding your comment of the recent observations:
I find this observation VERY interesting because this could be opinion, but I don’t think so because we are talking about real, physical comparisions and I therefore find it hard to reconcile those who feel the difference are substantial (including the DRB) with those who think it is not an issue. How can this be?
Could it be that when they “turn around” and look at the side across the path from your house they lose the context of the other material. It’s more the juxtaposition of these materials that sets off the DRB and that’s why we were able to bend them a bit by avoiding the physical co-mingling of these materials on adjoining houses.
I have both materials in my garage and when I place them next to each other and ask people to voice an opinion, I also get a universal response and that response is a direct contradiction to what you stated above.
Honetly, I am at a loss to explain how one group can see no difference and another group voice strong opposition to mixing these two materials. We are supposedly talking about an intelligent, rational, fact-based population that is not ego-centric.
So confused…
Ron
Dear Ron,
What you are doing (with boards in your garage) has no meaning in the real world. As Randy noted, “. . . the issue for most of us is really only limited to ‘what does it look like once in place?’”
Take your boards out of your garage and set them up on your deck to get equal exposure to sun and water vapor. Leave them there and wait three years (say) before exhibiting the boards again. Now, which will be the ugly board? Ron, the cedar will look shabby while the HardiePlank will look like new, rough cedar siding.
Rick-
1927 Lakeport Way
Rick: regarding your most recent post:
I like your idea and agree…let’s wait 3 years and re-visit this issue again. Or, perhaps we should investigate the 20+ year-old cedar on many homes in Reston and Lakeport which have been properly maintained and see how “shabby” they are looking.
Also, when you say, “HardiePlank will look like new, rough cedar siding”, I suggest that might be true if HardiePlank had any character or warmth with real, deep grain (not consistent, fake grain), was stained instead of painted, had knots, and had a pleasing profile. Other than that, you are correct in stating that HardiePlank looks just like rough cut cedar. BTW, there are many more “tests/experiments/observations” documented that fully expose the differences in these materials.
Are we having fun yet? Have a nice day.
Ron